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Let's whine about projectiles! (serious post)

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Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:34:00 - [1] I think this goes beyond damage modifiers, tracking, faloffs and optimals down to the very basis of the weapon - the specific damage type(s). Using AC/Arty, you can target the specific weakpoints of both shields and armour, using the best ammuniton in the correct circumstances to hamstring your targets defenses. Most omnitanks are strong in EM/kinetic/thermal. Fusion ammunition exploits potential Explosive weakpoints. Failing that, Phased Plasma for Thermal holes, or EMP for EM loopholes. Note that none of these ammunitions affect your larger faloff, so you can still reliably land hits within your standard range with ACs. Artillery, due to its massive potential alpha, unfortunately is brought back into balance by the substantial faloff range. This ensures that you still have a >50% chance to hit outside of our optimal for quite a long range. think of it as a bullet's parabolic arc - firing a bullet within range will guarantee your hit with good aim, however the shot constantly loses energy (exponentially past the 50% mark), and subsequently may miss or ricochet. However, landing a hit will still be extremely rewarding. Also, the extended falloff of ACs enables you to still place damaging relatively reliable hits well outside of your optimal, so that when the opportunity presents itself you can close in and exploit the full advantage of your optimal and your selected ammo types. It comes down to how you use the system, not the statistics presented on paper. Believe me, faloff is not a joke - bullets have inertia! control your transversal and your volley timing, and enjoy the system that's available to you. It works - any armour tanker should be scared spitless at a player who can use it.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:56:00 - [2] hop in-game, lemme come kill you in some jaguars, it'll be fun. hey wait, i'm firing outside of optimal! crikey!
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:15:00 - [3] well, you see, it hasn't. Because I'll continue. Etho, the last time i came across a Minnie battleship was when i was 1-volleyed by an outstanding 1400mm battleship setup sitting 140kms off a gate. absolutely shocked me, because i thought, omg falloff, that's bs! yeah I was wrong. the guy had that thing setup for sniping armour-tankers sooo goood that the smackdown he laid on me was so well-timed, he had no transversal, a huge sig rad, and the best set of damage types he could've used on my poor-****ie woopie shippie-wippy. it was awesome, and i have to say, it was in-game. fantastic stuff, i can never discount minitar for shredding armour tanks when you've seen that. so yeah, i'm presenting to you actual happenings rather than arguing with statistics. Also, allow me to retort - when facing predictably Amarr BS setups, you're extremely well encouraged to tank EM+Thermal. So well encouraged in fact, that the damage types are tankable to an easy 86%/82% level. So you're telling me you're omnitanking, even though you know you're going to face predictably less minmitar explosive damage (because statistically you think it sucks), and the insurmountable odds of EM/Thermal? (because statistically you think it rocks) You're more likely to encounter Ravens popping Em/Explosive at you because they're the two lowest resists across the board. On a serious note, I;d love to take you up on your MegaT challenge aforementioned in the MegaPulse thread.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.03 23:28:00 - [4] yer like I can give you that. go fight some minmitar specced players, they're proud old dogs - you'll see.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 05:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne ...melt your face off... lol u got burned good there Etho - Told you they were proud old dogs. Autocannons fire primarily into falloff - try squeezing the trigger of one, just once nice smooth motion. they're really great you know. Seriously I'm totally keen to disprove your incredibly imaginitive theories - they sound like heaps of fun!
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 05:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Etho Demerzel ...CANNOT OUTTRACK PULSE LASERS IN AN ARMAGEDDON AT ANY RANGE... wrooooooong - Both can! Tracking Bonus and enough mids for TPs and TCs to outweight ANY tracking discrepencies. and that's right, the Hyps got 5 mids. That's 2 more than 3. btw I'm havin a grand time yankin your chain :D
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 06:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 05/01/2009 06:22:09 Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 05/01/2009 06:16:55 Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 05/01/2009 06:06:56 Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr Originally by: Etho Demerzel ...CANNOT OUTTRACK PULSE LASERS IN AN ARMAGEDDON AT ANY RANGE... wrooooooong - Both can! Tracking Bonus and enough mids for TPs and TCs to outweight ANY tracking discrepencies. and that's right, the Hyps got 5 mids. That's 2 more than 3. btw I'm havin a grand time yankin your chain :D No it won't. Neither the hyperion, nor the Maelstrom have tracking bonuses. And as Goum kindly, pointed you, the Hyperion needs double web, one mid is left for the tracking computer, which won't leave space for an injector, so you can forget about active tanking. Even if you opt to cripple your tank, your tracking, considering the differences between sig radius still WON'T BE ENOUGH. And here we are talking about the hyperion. In the maelstrom it is even worse, as it can't dispose of meds. bawww so you can't have it all? deal with it.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 06:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr bawww so you can't have it all? deal with it. Oh but you can, you just need to be Amarr. w-r-o-n-g bucko, only 3 mids, max 4. MWD, Point, Injector. Possibly a TPII or a TDII. ohnoez no webz! whut aer we tu du? deal with it. You don't see me whining when i lose where i'm not supposed to fight with a geddon. So perhaps you could learn from your crappy maths and deduce that the megathron and hyperion are possibly not supposed to engage outside of 10kms? perhaps? possibly? mayhap? yes.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 06:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 05/01/2009 06:31:20 Oh. And I'd like to point out that autocannons are not to be used like Blasters. yeah the numbers might be the same as your bedraggled blasters, but the sure as hell don't behave the same in-game. Falloff kiting is the beez neez for autocannons. You can do it to an extent with blasters, but not as effectively. they kindof suffer from TDs where Autocannons don't so much. btw are you pvping a rock or something right now? and you'll fall in hot wet love with Artillery's 14x-18x damage mod when you instapop targets at 140kms. sock rocking stuff.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 06:54:00 - [10] Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 05/01/2009 07:03:06 Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 05/01/2009 06:55:18 Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Aerin Cloudfayr Edited by: Aerin Cloudfayr on 05/01/2009 06:31:20 Oh. And I'd like to point out that autocannons are not to be used like Blasters. yeah the numbers might be the same as your bedraggled blasters, but the sure as hell don't behave the same in-game. Falloff kiting is the beez neez for autocannons. You can do it to an extent with blasters, but not as effectively. they kindof suffer from TDs where Autocannons don't so much. btw are you pvping a rock or something right now? Cute. You do realize that the farther you go from laser boats the worse it will be for you, don't you? Staying out of range only works against blasters. And we all know that blasters are even worse than ACs, atm... Quote: and you'll fall in hot wet love with Artillery's 14x-18x damage mod when you instapop targets at 140kms. sock rocking stuff. You also do realize that Tachyons have almost the same alpha and MUCH more dps, don't you? fail - wrong again. eve damage comparison, 6x guns per damage bonused setup, 2 highs free for utility. http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lolsb2.jpg again, you're wrong - don't do this to yourself, it's a clown show here. Lasers are crippled by the inflexibility of EM/Thermal. It's easily tanked, and therefore can be totally nullified - hearken back to the days of 92.5% resistances on T2 Minmitar, then tell me who was crying (actually you can still do this! phear!) 1400mm Howitzers have more alpha. Use no cap and can fire til they run out of ammo. Which equates to Tank+Gank ability. Tracking sux like any long-range weapon and cannot track moving cruisers closer than the 40km mark without unreliability Tachyon Beams use metric-tonnes of cap. No Tank+Gank ability, or will run out of 800s fast. Limited to EM/Thermal with EM being the primary. Gleam makes the thing a sitting duck for Citadel Torpedoes even (though srsly sif u'd use Gleam). Tracking sux like any long-range weapon and cannot track moving cruisers closer than the 40km mark without unreliability. get your facts straight or get onto the test server.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Etho Demerzel "...in reality..." I don't believe it @.@ Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Yes yes, please tell us all more about how DPS charts are worth more than three years of combat experience. Neesa you're an absolute winner - no jokes, you got this.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.05 15:21:00 - [12] Unfortunately it's something i've never really understood - Tachyons seem like an oversized module. what're the comparisons like with Mega Beams instead?
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.08 02:08:00 - [13] Increase the volley damage potential on Artillery - this is what it's for. Clip size shouldn't need to change when single volleys are killing the right targets. otherwise, http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/argument.gif
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.08 03:28:00 - [14] Numbers on raising the ship damage bonuses from 5% to 7.5%. I'm predicting a huge change, but at least this way, in order to have GREAT Projectile weapons, you'll have to learn the necessary ship skill to lvl V. Would this be a decent proposal? This would bring the alpha of a Tempest to: [Tempest, 3xGyrostabs + Full gunnery skills, 6x1400mm ArtyII w/EMP L] [damage Multipliers @ MBS V] 0.0% bonus = 14.47x Alpha @ 3822 5.0% bonus = 18.09x Alpha @ 4788 7.5% bonus = 19.89x Alpha @ 5251 10% bonus = 21.70x Alpha @ 5729 Can someone run the DPS potentials please. A constructive and progressive thread is easily more appealing than your little ****fight.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.08 03:47:00 - [15] Tempest, 6x 1400mm IIs EMP L, 3x Gyrostabs, full Gunnery skills. Fire rate potentials @ Fire rate increases of 0, 5, 7.5 and 10% 0.0% 13.00sec 5.0% 9.75sec 7.5% 8.77sec 10.0% 6.50sec The DPS per clip with both bonuses raised together: 0.0% 294 DPS 5.0% 490 DPS 7.5% 598 DPS 10.0% 881 DPS The Abaddon with 8 Tachyon IIs and 3x Damage Mods has a sustained DPS of 753, and does not need to reload. The Tempest has both fire rate, and damage bonuses, equating to the most significant rise in DPS as both bonuses rise. Alternating these bonuses may produce a more in-line result, however this doesn't seem necessary as these turrets still need to reload regularly, and have a small clip size.
Aerin Cloudfayr the evil ones Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.08 04:02:00 - [16] I've got to say, this doesn't seem so far-fetched. Amarr benefits hugely from not needing to reload - While most players take it for granted, it's an indirect blessing. I'd personally like to see other unique 'blessings' for Minmitar, as the other races do tend to have theirs; Gallente - Great Damage-bonused ships with good dronebays Cowdari - Beautiful Passive shield-tanking ability and cross-damage type freedom Minmitar - speed? Not really, enough on its own, but they could do with better projectile systems on their damage bonused ships. This would make Minmitar ships the only ships to fit projectiles on - as with Amarr ships and Lasers.

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